Shop build

Tech talk for those wrench turners on your trail rig.

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akjason
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Shop build

Post by akjason » Wed May 02, 2018 10:39 am

It's been a long and winding road with a few dead ends, but Lisa and I have finally found a home that'll be a much better fit for our growing family than our current home that's busting at the seams. It's on a partially wooded acre in northern Jessamine County, and most importantly, no HOA telling us what we can or can't do. There just happens to be a second driveway already in place for boat/trailer/rv parking, so I will be extending this driveway further behind the house, and building a detached garage (traditional stick-built construction). At the moment, I'm planning on a 32'x32' with 12.5' ceiling, simple 8/12 gable roof with attic trusses for storage. 20' wide x 10' tall roll-up door and man-door on the front gable end, very similar to my current garage. Trailer parking pad on the side of the garage along the property line, which will be a straight shot off the street. I'll post some preliminary shots of the lot and garage later tonight for a better visual.

But the point of this thread is to ask for everybody's input on things I should consider in the build. Outlet types/locations, air hose reel placement, ceiling vs wall-mount fans, etc etc. The little things that you really don't have a feel for until after using a space for a little while. Also the big things like heat, lift suggestion (brand, model, placement), shop equipment layout, how to take advantage of the tall walls/ceilings not near the lift, etc.

I've already got some ideas and plans for what I want to do and don't want to do, but I don't want to bias anyone at this point. So I'm open to any and all suggestions, advice, words of wisdom, etc. Even better if based on personal experience. Go!

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Re: Shop build

Post by akjason » Fri May 04, 2018 6:17 am

Pictures are better late than never.

Approximate placement on lot:
Lot Aerial 2.png
Current layout with interior stairs to attic. I'm working on putting together another layout with exterior stairs to attic for more floor space, but this is the fork in the road I'm at now.
180504 Layout 2.PNG
180504 Perspective Top 1.PNG
180504 Orthographic 2.PNG

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Re: Shop build

Post by akjason » Fri May 04, 2018 6:19 am

Oh, and the property comes with 3 sheds in various conditions. I'm considering turning one of them into an air compressor shed placed at the back wall of the garage. If not, the compressor will likely go in the front left corner. Anybody have experience plumbing a compressor from outside a building?

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Re: Shop build

Post by TwoStep » Fri May 04, 2018 11:59 am

Layout:
-If you are building a lean-to roof for the trailer, any way you can make this portion a pull-through? Also, can you make the roof tall enough that you can park a loaded buggy under it? That would be nice for early morning departures.
-It is nice to have a HD work bench in the middle of the floor that can be accessed from all sides.

Electrical:
-100 amp sub or 200 stand alone?
-An appropriate amp rated 240 outlet on each wall or each corner since one wall will be a door. That along with a 15' welder extension cord and you are set.
-Plenty of breakers for the 120 outlets.
-a drop down extension cord in the middle.

Air:
-Definitely put the compressor outside. Make sure there is plenty of ventilation for the pump heat. Plumb the air through the wall with steel pipe. Don't forget to install a ball valve on the bottom of the tank for easy water drainage. Dual stage water trap/filter inside for regular maintenance.
-unless you like to be in your breaker box all of the time... install an electrical disconnect in a handy spot for turning it on/off.
-ball valves everywhere.
-one large drop down real in the middle.
-one large drop down by the OH door.
-other than that, place outlets as you see fit with the layout.

Attic access:
Exterior access sounds good but the cost of exterior grade stairs and doors would be more. But it sucks to give up some much shop space. Have you considered a ladder for getting in and out and a drop down elevator platform thingy for moving boxes and such?
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akjason
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Re: Shop build

Post by akjason » Fri May 04, 2018 1:53 pm

TwoStep wrote:Layout:
-If you are building a lean-to roof for the trailer, any way you can make this portion a pull-through? Also, can you make the roof tall enough that you can park a loaded buggy under it? That would be nice for early morning departures.
I would love to do that, but county regs for this zone state no structure within 12ft to side property line. Trailer parking pad in that 12ft is no problem, but no roof structure. Nothing saying I can't put up a metal car port at some point. But worst case I can load the trailer with buggy and gear, then unhitch it in the garage where it's shown in the layout.
TwoStep wrote:-It is nice to have a HD work bench in the middle of the floor that can be accessed from all sides.
Unfortunately the one post of the lift is right in the middle of things, but at some point I'll make a chassis-size work bench/weld table on casters to put it wherever is convenient at the time. Without adding an overhead door on a side wall, I don't see another way around it.
TwoStep wrote:Electrical:
-100 amp sub or 200 stand alone?
-An appropriate amp rated 240 outlet on each wall or each corner since one wall will be a door. That along with a 15' welder extension cord and you are set.
-Plenty of breakers for the 120 outlets.
-a drop down extension cord in the middle.
All good points. I'm planning on a 100A sub panel, since that's what I have now and it seems to work well. Definitely not standalone service. Not sure if I should consider going to a bigger sub-panel. 240 outlet at least in the two corners with the doors, although all 4 corners isn't a bad idea. I have a big honking 30ft extension cord for my welder already, so I can swap to flux core and do driveway welding if I really needed to. Got that for working on the trailer from a buddy who's mom was a secretary at an extension cord manufacturer, I think I paid like $30! I was planning on two circuits for every other outlet (~6ft spacing along wall), or separate circuit for each wall. Thoughts? My garage now is two circuits, every other outlet. But the ceiling lights are on one of the circuits, and a bound up circular saw trips the breaker. So lights will be on their own circuit as well.
TwoStep wrote:Air:
-Definitely put the compressor outside. Make sure there is plenty of ventilation for the pump heat. Plumb the air through the wall with steel pipe. Don't forget to install a ball valve on the bottom of the tank for easy water drainage. Dual stage water trap/filter inside for regular maintenance.
-unless you like to be in your breaker box all of the time... install an electrical disconnect in a handy spot for turning it on/off.
-ball valves everywhere.
-one large drop down real in the middle.
-one large drop down by the OH door.
-other than that, place outlets as you see fit with the layout.
All good points. I've been reading up more on compressor sheds, and I'm leaning very heavily in that direction.
TwoStep wrote:Attic access:
Exterior access sounds good but the cost of exterior grade stairs and doors would be more. But it sucks to give up some much shop space. Have you considered a ladder for getting in and out and a drop down elevator platform thingy for moving boxes and such?
Yeah, that's why I'm on the fence right now with exterior stairs. Ceiling and walls will be insulated, so the door to the attic shown in my layout is already an insulated steel door, so that's a zero cost adder. It really comes down to the extra cost of exterior stairs vs floor space. I may just bid out both options and go from there.

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Re: Shop build

Post by TwoStep » Fri May 04, 2018 2:43 pm

So why not move the garage over enough to meet code requirement?
akjason wrote:a bound up circular saw trips the breaker. So lights will be on their own circuit as well.
Yeah, that is related to the reason I said plenty of breakers. I can't stand when you do trip a breaker the lights going out.

Another thing, music. Wire in some speaker mounts.

What about heating and cooling? And what is that thing standing in front of the lift?
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Re: Shop build

Post by akjason » Fri May 04, 2018 3:39 pm

I'll do a site survey after we close, but if I move the garage over enough to have a covered parking pad then I believe it'll be too far towards the center of the lot, and won't get approval from the exec committee (wife). Plus I want to be able to park a camper/motorhome/etc there. A tarp over the buggy over night is very cheap and easy.

Yes, I've forgotten about pre-wiring for speakers. Definitely will do, thanks.

At this point, I'm leaning toward PTAC for heating and cooling, per advice from a well-trusted HVAC company owner. PTAC is what is used in all your typical hotel rooms, and that's what you see in the side wall by the front man-door (under the breaker panel). They're completely self-contained, just install a sleeve through a wall that's framed properly and plug it into a nearby outlet. If I were heating/cooling more often (especially in winter since these use backup resistance strips below freezing), or if I weren't insulating, then PTAC might not make sense. But that same HVAC guy recommended avoiding ductless mini-split due to cost, sensitivity to dust/debris, and complexity. I'll also have some ceiling fans for mixing the air around.

That thing next to the lift is a mobile gantry crane. Not sure if I'll build or buy, or when it'll happen, but I'm planning for it now (to share floor space with the lift for the most part). It'll be nice for loading/unloading things from a trailer/truck bed, pulling engines, lifting bodies, etc.

Speaking of lifting - I forgot to address your earlier comment about the attic ladder. Ladders for tall ceilings that aren't rickety POS's aren't cheap, and they're still essentially ladders. The ceiling/attic floor will be insulated, and an attic ladder would put a giant hole in that thermal envelope. So I plan on building a hinged and insulated/sealed trap door, and the attic trusses in that area will be spec'd for a hoist to lift things into the attic (think unused engine hoist, engine stands, smaller car parts, etc). The hoist will be on a short beam to slide the load away from the trap door (i.e. onto a furniture dolly). Approximate location is above the trailer axles in the layout picture. Thinking 4'x4', but that'll depend on feedback from truss designer.

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Re: Shop build

Post by Reeko » Fri May 04, 2018 7:09 pm

I sell industrial air compressors and that fancy air line tubing through my sister company. I can check on that option should you need it.


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Re: Shop build

Post by akjason » Fri May 04, 2018 7:21 pm

Well I've got the air compressor, but will need a way to distribute it around the garage. Default choice is black pipe run along the top of the walls, unless there's a compelling reason to go with something else.

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Re: Shop build

Post by akjason » Fri May 04, 2018 8:49 pm

What exactly is the fancy air line tubing you're talking about? Rapid Air?

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Re: Shop build

Post by Reeko » Fri May 04, 2018 10:10 pm

akjason wrote:What exactly is the fancy air line tubing you're talking about? Rapid Air?
Pretty much. The modular air compressor tubing. Sister company so they don’t train us on it.

https://aircompressors.com


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Re: Shop build

Post by TwoStep » Sat May 05, 2018 11:29 pm

PEX for the win.


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Re: Shop build

Post by akjason » Sun May 06, 2018 9:22 am

I hear pex is becoming pretty common to use, but that it's only rated for something like 60psi since its only meant for water pressure. Air line pressure is double that.

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Re: Shop build

Post by TwoStep » Sun May 06, 2018 10:08 pm

My google-fu shows acceptable “working pressures” at our normal temps. The beauty of pex is that it won’t explode if it does burst.

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Re: Shop build

Post by akjason » Mon May 07, 2018 9:43 am

Yeah, PVC will send shrapnel if it fails. I guess the pressure rating concern I read about is only applicable to water temp coming out of a water heater, which makes sense. Makes me wonder what the air temp is at the compressor outlet. Hmmm, looks like I've got some further research to do. It would certainly be an easy option.

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